So, which U.S. policy is harder to measure: success in Iraq, or success with domestic school policy ("no child left behind") ? If we can have benchmarks and consequences for children's education, can we at least formulate the criteria for success in Iraq?
[Sen. Bob Menendez (D New Jersey)]
Thank you Mr. Chairman, Madame Secretary thank you for your service to the country.
I didn't vote for the war in Iraq in the first place. I believe it was one of the best decisions I ever made. And I simply don't believe that the president's escalation of the war will work. It seems to me that it's time for a political surge, not a military escalation. And I also believe it's long past time that we transition both our efforts in Iraq, our mission in Iraq particularly with our troops, and then ultimately the transition of our troops out of Iraq, in order for having the Iraqis to understand what you've talked about here, but haven't given us any benchmarks that one can measure by. And that is, to have them understand that they have to make the hard choices, compromises, negotiations, necessary for a government of national unity.
When I heard Gen. Pace last year say to us, that "we have to get the Iraqis to love their children more than they hate their neighbors." That's a powerful truism, but it does not get achieved by military might.
And so, it seems to me, to paraphrase Shakespeare, ...An escalation by any other name is an escalation. I know out of the white house it came as surge. But surge would mean temporary, and that's clearly not the case here. And ...A failed strategy, however repackaged, is still a failed strategy. We tried this plan before, and it didn't work when we sent 12,000 troops to Baghdad last summer. And we heard a panel of witnesses yesterday and there have been other military experts who have said that at this point reliable Iraqi troops aren't there simply to show up.
So you've suggested that the President has listened to a wide range of people, the Iraqi study group, the members of Congress, different military options, the American people. But, if he listened, I don't think he's heard, I don't think he's heard that wide range of views.
So I want to ask you though, even in the midst of my own views, trying to understand, what is really new about this effort? Did the President obtain a commitment from Prime Mister Maliki specifically to use Iraqi troops against Muqtada al-Sadr's troops?
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
He obtained an assurance from Prime Minister Maliki that he will go after whoever is killing innocent Iraqis, and I think they fully understand that the jaish al-Madhi are part of the problem.
[Sen. Bob Menendez]
Did he speak specifically, about, and obtain specific commitments about going against al-Sadr.
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
He said that whoever they have to go after, and the military thinks they have to go after, they'll go after them.
[Sen. Bob Menendez]
The reason I ask the specific question is because it's al-Sadr who's keeping his government afloat right now.
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
Well actually al-Sadr and his people pulled out of the government, and the government hadn't collapsed. They pulled out as you remember because of the Amann meeting with President Bush. And I think that demonstrates that in fact they can continue to function even if the Sadr forces are not a part of the government.
[Sen. Bob Menendez]
When the president spoke to these other different... there is a broad misgiving among Shiite leaders in the government, about the Shiites having a deep seated fear that the power they won at the polls is going to be whittled away by Americans in pursuit of Sunnis... did he get their commitment to support Prime Minister Maliki?
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
I'm sorry, "their" being, the other Shi'ia?
[Sen. Bob Menendez]
The other Shi'ia leaders, the other party leaders.
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
Yes. The for instance [unclear ????skiri] supports Prime Minister Maliki in this effort. There is a broad ...
[Sen. Bob Menendez]
In the effort? Or to support him in his position as prime minister?
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
They support him as prime minister. They brought him to power.
[Sen. Bob Menendez]
Well, I find it really hard, unless we have a specific... I know that general view, that we will go against anyone. But isn't it in fact part of the negotiations that the president had with prime minister Maliki, is to give him more operational control. And in that operational control, couldn't he circumvent going against al-Sadr?
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
If he circumvents going against the people who are doing the killing, then he's going to fail, and his plan is going to fail. And he understands that.
[Sen. Bob Menendez]
Let's talk about that then. Let's assume that for argument's sake... let's not think about the best, the best would be great. Let's assume that he fails.
One of the problems is that benchmarks without time lines, or consequences, even the Iraq study group said that as part of their recommendation. They specifically said "if the Iraqi government does not make substantial progress towards the achievement of milestones on national reconciliation, security and governance, the United States should reduce its political, military, economic support for the Iraqi government."
But when I heard your response to Senator Coleman, you said, the Iraqis didn't have, you know... you go with plan "A", and if plan "A" doesn't work, then you know, you deal with it subsequently. I think that's been part of our problem here. We have a plan. But even Plan A does not have contingencies, it doesn't have benchmarks.
How can you ask the American people, and the members of Congress who represent the American people, to continue to give you a blank check without benchmarks that are definable, without benchmarks that have time lines of some consequence, without consequences to the failure to meet those deadlines. Because we've seen these benchmarks be repackaged from the past. They were benchmarks before, they were not met, there are no consequences, and we continue to create a dependency by the Iraqis on our forces.
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
But Senator, first of all, I think you do one strategy at a time. But you can tell, and you can adjust a strategy as you go along. This is not going to unfold all at once. We are going to know whether or not the Iraqis are living up to their obligations, and we are going to know early on, and there are opportunities for adjustment then.
The benchmarks are actually very clear, and the Iraqis themselves have set forward some timetables for those benchmarks because they've got to get legislation through, they have an international compact that they're trying to respond to. But I just want to speak to the point of consequences.
There are consequences in that they will loose the support of the American people. And they'll loose the support of the Iraqi people.
[Sen. Bob Menendez]
But they have already been there, Madame Secretary, in terms of the support of the American people. The question is, what will our government do, specifically, if benchmarks are not met, what will we do? And that's where there is no answer, and therefore [it is] very difficult to support any such policy.
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
Senator, I think it's just bad policy, frankly, to speculate on what you'll do if a plan fails that you are trying to make work. I just don't think it's the way to go about it.
[Sen. Bob Menendez]
The president did it in "leave no child behind." There are real consequences if you in fact don't meet certain standards: you loose a lot of money, you get categorized as a failed school district,
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
Yes, as complicated....
[Sen. Bob Menendez]
It seems to be a standard that can work here domestically. We are unwilling to give the government a standard that ultimately they would have to met in order for use to be able to achieve... whether or not to achieve success, or therefore determine what are the consequences to failure.
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
Senator, as complicated as education policy is, I think you're wrong. The circumstances of the Iraqis are very complicated. We're not giving... First of all, we don't expect that anyone here is giving us a blank check. I understand the skepticism. And I know that if this doesn't show some success, there isn't going to be support for this policy. I understand that. And we have said this to the Iraqis in no uncertain terms. They have to start to deliver, they have to start to deliver now, and if they don't, then I think they know that we are not going to be able to continue to support them at the levels that we do.
