This is the hearing where you heard the lingusitic shift (or re-write) from "surge of troops" to "augmentation of troops."
[Sen George Voinovich (R-Ohio)]
Secretary, I'm sorry that I wasn't here for your testimony for the other questions so you'll forgive me if I am going to be redundant. But I met this morning with representatives from ten nations who are concerned about our visa waiver program. And I believe that the current program, and I'm glad the president understands this, needs to be changed, because these people are our allies in helping us in Afghanistan, and Iraq. And I think you know that the most important weapon, I think, in terms of winning the war on terror is public diplomacy, and it needs to be improved substantially. And I'm hoping, Mr. Chairman, that we can get on to this whole issue of visa waiver early on in this session so that we can get it done. And calm down some of our allies that are really upset with us that they can't get their people here into the United States because of this unrealistic program that we have.
I think you should know that I am skeptical that a surge of troops will bring and end to the escalation of violence and the insurgency in Iraq. Many of the generals that have served there have said they don't believe additional troops will be helpful in Baghdad, particularly.
And Madame Secretary, my faith in Prime Minister Maliki's ability to make the hard choices necessary to bring about political solutions has to be restored. What we need is a political solution between the Sunnis and the Shiite. And I've asked this question now for two years. How can you have a unity government, that isn't dominated by the Shiites, that will ultimately get rid of the Sunnis that are in Iraq, when you have Sadr there, Muqtada al-Sadr, who from everything I understand pretty well tells Maliki what to do. We've seen evidence where we've done certain things, he makes a telephone call, and Maliki pulls the plug.
I think that we underestimate the hatred between Sunnis and Shiites. And we're saying that somehow they're all going to get together and everything's going to be happy. The Sunnis and the Baathists kept the Shiites down for many many years, now the Shiites are in the majority. The issue is, are you going to end up with a unity government, or are you going to have another theocracy, like you have in Iran? I think that's what Sadr wants. So, how can you explain to us, that this is all going to be worked out? Probably this article was discussed already this morning, the Fog, David Brooks' article, in the New York Times? [David Brooks: The Fog over Iraq in the NYT and the IHT, Jan 11, 2007]
He says that the plan we're proposing isn't reflecting what Maliki says he wants done. And I'd insist that Maliki gets up and makes it clear to the whole world that this is what he wants done! That he's for it! And this isn't the United States on our own superimposing what we think needs to be done on him. Because I think that if that's not done, every one's going to think, here we go again, the U.S. is in there on their own.
The other question's been raised here, is how much help are we getting from our Sunni friends, there. What have they done to help us? Countries that had been our friends are leaving. Why is it that they're leaving? Have they lost confidence that this dream that we had of a democracy there, which many of us bought into, isn't going to happen? And that it's going to break down into a civil war situation?
And I think the question that all of us have is this: we don't want any more of our young men killed in a civil war between two groups that ultimately are never going to come together. I send letters out to the families and tell them how brave their sons were, that the work they're doing there, and the deaths, were as important as what we had in the second world war. But I have to rewrite the letter today. We're talking now about stability.
We're talking about young men and women. This is a very, very important decision. And I think you're going to have to do a much better job, and so is the president, explaining this to us. You've seen the testimony here among my colleagues.
And I must tell you, I've gone along with the president on this, and I've bought into his dream, and at this stage of the game I don't think it's going to happen.
[Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice]
Well thank you Senator. I think that we don't have an option to fail in Iraq. The consequences are too great. And... I just don't think it is true that the Iraqi Sunnis and Shia hate each other to the point that they can't live together... I don't believe that. I do think that there are long pent up tensions and emotions and grievances in that society that come from years of tyranny and it's going to take some time for them to get over it, and I do think they've had a very bad set of circumstances by...
[Sen George Voinovich]
Yes Madame Secretary, but what evidentiary fact do we have that he is going to make the tough political decisions that he has to make. And loose his support from Maliki [???did he mean Maliki loose Sadr support?] and the others...
[Secretary Rice]
Senator, we have from him these assurances. He's going to have to act on them. We're going to know very soon whether or not there is political interference when his forces, and they're his forces, want to go into a neighborhood. And we're going to know very soon whether or not he is carrying through with his view, with what he told us, which is that if you are Sunni or Shia, and you are outside the law and you are killing innocent Iraqis, then you have to pay a price for that. You have to be punished. We're going to know. And American forces, as they flow in over time, will only go to support a policy in which Iraqis are carrying out those obligations.
But I just want to emphasize again. I've heard everybody say, we cannot fail, we cannot fail, we cannot fail. If they are unable to get a hold of the sectarian violence, to show that they can control Baghdad, to establish confidence that they are going to be even-handed, then it's going to be very difficult for them to get...
[Sen George Voinovich]
How can we do it with Sadr? How can we do it with Sadr?
[Secretary Rice]
The Iraqis are going to have to deal with Sadr. And to the degree that Sadr is outside of the political process, and his death squads are engaged in violence, then they are going to have to deal with those death squads. And the Prime Minister has said: nobody and nothing is off limits. We will know, Senator, whether or not they are following through. But we've really got to give him a chance to get ahold of this sectarian violence in their capitol, where it's not Iraqis running down the streets, killing other Iraqi Sunnis and Shia. It is organized death squads, going into neighborhoods and killing Sunnis and Shia. That is what's going on there. And they need to re-establish civil order, and we need to be able to help them do that. That is the purpose of the augmentation of our forces.
